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john tower, why are people awake today? >> we backing you up team sprinkles. i may live in boston, but i'm in south jersey, they are sprinkles. >> the interesting part is when i go to cape cod, i do call them jimmys because i don't want anyone to know that i'm a new yorker. i wear my yankee hat, i may get thrown out. great show, everyone. "morning joe" coming up right now.
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good morning. it is thursday, february 14th. willie, happy president's day. >> happy president's day. a long weekend. >> is it president's day? >> valentine's day. >> oh, is it really? all right. well, with us on set to celebrate this blessed occasion, msnbc contributor and central park's stalker, on valentine's day or any day, mike barnicle. >> it's getting warm enough. >> it is getting warm up. the problem is he's got the reflector shades on, and they steam up. when it's this cold outside, they steam up and he can't. >> it's hard. >> when it's cold, it's easier because i can wear the scarf across the lower. >> that's just gross. >> ski mask. >> ski mask. whoo! you see his picture in a lot of
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7-elev 7-elevens. also, steve rattner. in washington, director, president and ceo of the woodrow wilson international center for scholars, jane harman. jane, thank you so much for being with us today. >> thank you, joe. >> greatly appreciate it. happy valentine's day. >> happy valentine's day. >> willie, i'm so glad jane's here -- by the way, mika's in the south of france. we're going to be talking about obviously leon panetta. boy, a blistering attack against congress. can't wait to talk to jane about that. also, john mccain's changing his tune. we praised him yesterday. so he had to reverse course, i guess. so now he's talking about possibly delaying chuck hagel's nomination. and also wayne lapierre. this is very important. because if you look at the profiles of all the people that committed these mass murders in
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newtown and aurora and across -- virginia tech, they are all hispanic drug gang leaders. and that's exactly what wayne lapierre said in an op-ed that americans need to buy guns because those latin americans are coming to america, and they're going to kill you people. this is who a lot of republicans in congress are thinking about falling off -- don't do it. don't hurt our party anymore. let wayne lapierre go wherever he wants to go. he's going to destroy the party. we're going to talk about the crazy op-ed has horrible for our party's image, horrible for the conservative movement's image, goes against everything ronald reagan stood for. we'll talk about that in a minute. first, breaking news. this is bizarre. the feel-good story of the olympic games involved in possibly murder. >> this was a total jaw-dropper this morning. oscar pistorius, for those people who don't know, is a south african runner, a double
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amputee who became the first person with double amputation to ever qualify for the olympics. he ran without legs in the 2012 london games. and now according to the associated press and some other sources has been charged with the murder of his 30-year-old girlfriend. she's a model. she was found shot to death at the south african home of oscar pistorius, the double amputee olympic sprinter who's known as the blade runner. the name of the suspected shooter has not been revealed, but a 26-year-old man, a man the same age as pistorius, has been taken into custody. a court hearing is set for later today. so we're still getting information about what happened. >> yeah. >> some people are suggesting he mistook her for an intruder. others are saying that may just be what he told the police when they walked in and found the scene. you can't overstate how shocking this is. he's not just your average runner. he's an international icon, an inspiration to a lot of people. >> yeah. >> he came out.
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he had won gold in a lot of paralip pipar paralymp paralympics. he was already a hero for that. then to qualify for the olympics in loss done was historic. he ran in the 4x400. >> you were in london. this was the story. >> perhaps the biggest story of the 2012 london olympic games. and this catapulted him into international superstardom. and this morning he has been charged with murder. >> we will be following it. and i'm sure we'll get more information over the next couple of hours. let's talk about the president's new push for gun legislation. the republican opposition it's running into. senator lindsey graham of south carolina is accusing the president of, quote, cheerleadering for new restrictions while overlooking big gaps in the way current laws are being enforced. >> my democratic colleagues want to expand the background check law to make us all feel that we're safer. my retort to my democratic
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friends is that you can't really feel safe by expanding a broken law. we talk a lot about new laws. we talk about the emotional aspects of gun violence. we don't seem to be doing very much in the real world to make it -- to deter people. >> well, i mean, if the law is broken, lindsey, then fix it. it's very easy. the law is broken, so you do nothing to it? again, there are no good arguments against universal background checks to keep guns out of the hands of felons. does lindsey graham want felons to have guns? does lindsey graham want people who are mentally incapable of possessing and owning guns to have guns? if not, then why doesn't he support a universal background check? he says the system's broken. well, fix it, senator graham. let's make sure that people in south carolina know, let's make sure people in columbia know, let's make sure people in greenville know that felons
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aren't going to be able to get guns illegally. i don't know why he's doing this. maybe he's listening to nra ceo wayne lapierre who's expanding his argument now not only against the sensible gun-control legislation he supported not so long ago, the universal background checks that now lindsey says he's against, but now he's against any reasonable gun safety legislation. this is what he writes in his op-ed in "the daily caller." "stand and fight. after hurricane sandy, we saw the hellish world that the gun prohibitionists -- i never liked prohibition -- the prohibitionists see as their utopia. looters ran wild in south brooklyn. really? what's he suggesting there? there was no food, water or electricity. and if you wanted to walk
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several miles to get supplies, you better get back before dark, or you might not get home at all. mean while, president obama is leading the country to financial ruin, borrowing over a trillion dollars, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. and then, of course, he talks about the phony stimulus spending and other payoffs for his political cronies. nobody knows if or when the fiscal collapse will come. but if the country is broke, there likely won't be enough money to pay for police protection. and the american people know it. hurricanes. tornadoes. riots. terrorists. gangs. lone criminals. these are the perils we are sure to face! not just maybe. it's not paranoia to buy a gun. it's survival. it's responsible behavior. it's time we encourage law-abiding americans to do just that. mike barnicle, i don't know where to start. yeah, it's responsible to own a
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gun. it's responsible to protect your family. it's responsible to have a handgun this your house. it's responsible to have a shotgun. it's responsible to have a hunting rifle. but wayne lapierre is suggesting if you are against americans being able to own assault weapons with 30-round high-capacity magazines, that somehow you're going to -- and he said hispanic drug gangs are coming to america, and those terrible people in brooklyn, don't go out after dark. i mean, this is so laced with racial overtones. >> oh, absolutely. >> that the republican party, if they were smart, their leaders today would condemn it, but they're not smart. they're scared. and you know, they keep running squared, they're going to lose more votes. they're going to get hammered in future elections if they allow this clown to continue to lead them around by their nose. they're shameful. they need to be leaders. >> key word is "clown." you could take this excerpt from his editorial, whatever it is
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that he wrote, bring it a few floors up from here and put it on "saturday night live" this weekend, and it would get great laughs if performed as well as you just perform it had. wayne lapierre performs from a platform of fear. that's what he's peddling, fear. and he's peddling it on behalf of gun manufacturers, not gun owners. >> no. he doesn't care about gun owners. >> gun manufacturers. >> it's about money. >> yeah. that's what it's about. selling weapons. >> it's not about the second amendment rights. and willie, when he goes through that laundry list and he says that he is confident, just like glenn beck with his survival seeds, he is confident that america is going to collapse. i want to say that again. wayne lapierre, unlike ronald reagan, who believed america's greatest days were ahead of us, and if reagan were alive today, reagan would still believe that america's greatest days are ahead of us. you know why? because america's greatest days are ahead of us.
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but wayne lapierre's vision, willie, is this post-apocalyptic america. again, straight out of "the book of eli" where americans are going to have to buy bushmasters. >> great movie. >> it was an amazing movie. because there's not -- we're not going to have police officers. we're not going to -- wayne lapierre is arguing, we're not going to be able to afford police officers. so we'd better get those guns now. and he goes, americans know it. americans know it. we're collapsing. why does wayne lapierre not believe in america's greatness? >> he's also using the rare exception of a store being looted in brooklyn during a once in a generation, once in a century storm as an argument why we should have guns all the time. you know what i mean? you take the one exception to make your rule. i don't know who it is in the republican party. maybe you have a better idea than i do, joe. who could step in and go to him who has the respect of wayne
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lapierre and say, listen, i'm in the nra. i respect what you do, but you're hurting our party. you're hurting our brand. >> this undermines -- >> confirming all the suspicions that people have about us. >> everything that republicans are now trying to do to make up for their 27% showing in the election with hispanics, wayne lapierre is undercut with this letter by talking about latin american drug gangs. and talking about south brooklyn. and, again, a racially tinged very suggestive op-ed by wayne lapierre who republicans are blindly following around. >> right. but this editorial and a lot of what he's been saying, his whole appearance and the way he kind of foams at the mouth when he's on one of these sunday shows, he's making a caricature of himself. he's marginalizing himself. >> and that's the problem, though. jane harman, the problem is, he's marginalized -- i don't know what your rating was in congress.
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i was an "a" rated guy with the nra. i believe in america's right to keep and bear arms. i believe the second amendment means what it says. i believe that americans have a right to carry. i think americans should be -- i'm upset that in new york, i can't carry a handgun if i want to carry a handgun. that's where i come from. but the extremism of wayne lapierre is so frightening that i don't know why -- actually, i'm talking about republicans. here you've got democrats as well that are following wayne lapierre. >> you bet. but let me add something here. the one bipartisan moment in the state of the union message the other day was when the president called for immigration reform. and everybody stood up. and i think there's a real chance finally that we will have some form of comprehensive immigration reform. well, that gets undercut by these racist comments by wayne lapierre. i think, as you said, joe, there are many democrats who support
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gun rights. i'm not against the second amendment, and i'm not against responsible gun ownership either. but this is way extreme. and wayne lapierre is the gift that keeps on giving. and i predict that you're right and that reasonable republicans will soon move this guy out of the mainstream of the party, or should. >> you know, they really should. i guess i do, steve, i need to clarify also, there are, of course, democratic senators that are going to be running for re-election in south dakota, in louisiana, and a lot of southern states, a lot of very red states in 2014 that haven't distanced themselves yet from wayne lapierre. they need to do that. there are 40 to 45 democrats in the house of representatives that haven't distanced themselves from wayne lapierre. they need to do that as well. he is a caricature. and the question is, when are they going to get the message? >> well, we don't know, but look. every day, every time he writes one of these things, this one, i
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thought, was the most over the top yet of anything he's written or said. i think we are going to get to that point. but as you say, there are, i think, seven democratic senators from states that obama did not carry in the last election or up for re-election, and they're having to walk a fine balance. wayne lapierre does not work for the republican party. they do have to walk away from him, but they can't shut him down. >> and the best way to shut him down is speaking out against him, walking away from him, sending a message to the nra, we are with you, like me, 95% of the time. but this extremism has to stop. i want to get to leon panetta's farewell as secretary of defense and ask jane what she thinks about it because, boy, he had some tough words in his final press briefing on the job. with the threat of the march 1st sequester looming, panetta lashed out at congress for failing to halt the $85 billion in automatic cuts in the sequester. take a listen.
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>> oftentimes i feel like i don't have a full partnership with my former colleagues on the hill in trying to do what's right for this country. we need to find solutions. we can't just sit here and [ bleep ]. we can't just sit here and complain. we can't just sit here and blame others. we can't just sit here and point fingers at each other. we have got to solve real problems facing this country. this country is facing some real threats in the world. we can't do this alone. we have got to do this with a full partnership of the congress and both houses of the congress. >> jane, do you agree with leon panetta that the sequester is going to be terrible for the defense industry? >> it's already terrible -- it's not just the defense industry, it's the u.s. economy which has contracted because of the anticipated loss of defense in aerospace jobs. leon panetta was confirmed 100-0. let me repeat that. 100-0. and he actually has a copy of
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the congressional record signed by 100 senators. i told him he ought to sell it on ebay and get rich. this hasn't happened in years, and it sure isn't going to happen with chuck hagel whom we can discuss. but the whole idea that in this reckless fashion, congress is not stopping this move to sequester of the defense or the nondefense budget just boggles my mind. i haven't been there in two years, but the people who are there are shaking their heads. let me say this. i was in munich recently for the security conference, my 11th time with john mccain, lindsey graham and a on the of others. the europeans who have economic structural problems are trying to increase their defense capability and shaking their heads at us and looking at the fact that we don't have serious problems, but we're manufacturing these economic problems and may be slashing the heck out of our defense budget for this crazy political circus
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that sadly is congress now. >> mike barnicle. >> jane, let's stick with security. i mean, you were in the house intelligence committee when you were in congress, and now there's a lot of talk about the proposal to have a special court for drone strikes. and yet drone strikes are quite often, almost always, quite immediate. how would it work -- first of all, what do you think of a special court, that concept? and secondly, how do you think it would work mean the immediacy for some drone strikes? >> i think we need to put a legal framework around drone strikes and cyber attacks, too. and i think that the framework that congress enacted 35 years ago in the foreign intelligence surveillance act, fisa, which was amended in 2008 and has been renewed twice, fits this. here's why, mike. sure, there are emergencies. you all of a sudden discover that a very top bad guy is
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someplace, and you want to act. but usually you have been watching him for a long time and then comes your chance for action. you know, killing especially let's focus on an american overseas without due process is really not okay. illegal killings are a bad idea of injecting our values including the rule of law. and if we have to go through a process to read somebody's e-mails or listen to his conversations, we sure should go through a process before we kill him. and the way this can work, the way fisa as amended works, is the secret court, the fisa court, reviews in advance the contours of a program some list of targets, this can be reviewed in advance in imminece and everything in the white paper can be met by a court. there are emergency provisions.
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if for some reason someone's not on the list and there's an imminent need to do something, the president has the authority to ask for that and get it and would get it. then congress is in the picture, too. we have a separation of powers in this country. and that's how we should do it. >> yes. yes, it is. yes, we do. and yes, it is. did you see, steve, john mccain's now talking about delaying chuck hagel's nomination. a lot of other republicans are piling on as well. >> yeah. they're not talking about a, quote, filibuster. it won't be a filibuster, but they're forcing harry reid to basically go and get 60 votes to confirm hagel. >> why is that? >> why are they doing it? >> why the change? why the change of heart? >> well, i think mccain has gone back and forth. i think at the beginning he suggested that he might try to block hagel's nomination. then he defended him the other day when the criticism really got out of bounds. and now he's back to saying he may try to block it. but it feels like reid will get his 60 votes.
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>> he's going to, but willie, they keep going back to benghazi. by the way, listen, we've said here clearly the white house screwed up, the state department screwed up, it was hillary clinton's low point. they asked for security in benghazi. they didn't get it. the ambassador asked for help. he didn't get it. what does that have to do with chuck hagel? >> well, john mccain has been trying to get answers from the white house about benghazi. i think he sees this as a moment of leverage now. he can hold this up. he's got a bunch of republican senators who will follow his lead. >> what does he want? what else does he want? >> he wants the white house to explain in great detail what the president was doing or what the president did the night of the attack. he wants to know exactly what was happening that night. and he said until he gets that information, he cannot move forward with a vote on chuck hagel who clearly had nothing to do with benghazi, but mccain's going to use this moment to get that information. >> don't you think it's more frustration on the part of mccain and graham that they can't really get the president
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of the united states to sit and respond to their questions? so they flail away at chuck hagel, you know, over benghazi. secretary clinton is gone. they can't get the president to sit before them. >> well, you know, the white house -- i'm sure they're frustrated, and they're angry. and jane, there were democrats that were frustrated and angry with the white house. >> you bet. >> early on after benghazi. you actually had the white house briefing members of the press before they had even reached out and briefed members of the senate or the house. and even john kerry, if i'm not mistaken, and if i am, he will e-mail me. i think john kerry, early on, was critical of the white house, not briefing them enough. the white house -- and again, we've said this -- the white house couldn't have screwed this up in a worse way. but at this point -- >> it's over. >> -- it's over. >> time to move on. >> and why do you hold up a secretary of defense? >> well, it makes no sense. it makes us a spectacle in the world.
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let's understand, if we do the sequester of the defense budget and then we have hagel swinging in the wind or if, in an unprecedented fashion, he's filibustered and not confirmed, i don't think that will happen, but he's certainly being delayed, the signal we're sending to the world is america can't get its act together. and that hurts us at a time when north korea's just done a third nuclear test, when syria is still in incredible meltdown, when there are all these dangers in north africa that you're always talking about, when our strategy against iran hasn't worked yet, but there are these six-party talks coming up in a week, couldn't be worse timing, guys. and for hagel, hagel may not be a lot of people's first choice, but he is the president's choice. there is nothing in his record that disqualifies him from being secretary of defense. his hearing performance may not have been stellar, but it's time to move this nomination. >> agreed.
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coming up, we've got former hewlett-packard ceo, carly fiorina, reverend al sharpton and michael hainey. mike allen with the "politico playbook." first, bill karins with a look at the forecast. >> colder air arrives. that mini-snow event turned out to be less than mini. a dusting to an inch at most. we're clear on the roads this morning. florida will have a little rain. if you're flying into miami or ft. lauderdale, maybe even west palm beach, they could have thunderstorms down there. minor airplane problems. it's 75 to 80 down there. light snow in green bay. currently there will be a coating on the roads for you and warsaw. back toward the northern plains, anyone in the dakotas, 90 from bismarck to fargo and also on 94, you will get some of that snow this morning.
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that's really about it. as advertised, we get that big shot of cold air dipping down into the entire eastern half of the country this weekend. we're looking good as far as snow is concerned. look at new york city. two days in the mid to upper 40s. no complaints. the snow almost completely gone from that big snowstorm last weekend. we get colder this weekend, but it's short-lived. here's your valentine's day forecast. what a beautiful day from the southeast through texas all the way through the whole southern half of the country. and then the northern plains, we showed you some of those snow showers possibly around chicago, too. overall looks like a nice day for anyone traveling on the eastern seaboard. washington, d.c., near 50 degrees today. not so bad, mid-february. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ dad ] find it?
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♪ one for the road it's time to take a look at the "morning papers." "usa today." it's official, american airlines has agreed to merge with us airways creating the world's largest airline if approved by the courts. it's going to mean that 87% of all u.s. airline traffic could be controlled by four major carriers. industry experts say less competition could lead to higher fares. what about service? better service? possibly, steve rattner? >> possibly because the airline industry has been so competitive. all these guys have done is put each other into bankruptcy which is where american airlines has been. having some consolidation may lead to higher fares but also decent service. >> willie, i think if i ever go overseas, i'm going to a cruise line. >> i've got just the ship for you. >> really? >> because "the houston chronicle." >> the "uss poop." >> in mobile, alabama. >> what's the name of the ship? >> triumph.
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>> not pensacola, thank god. >> it's being towed back to port. >> stay out of our waters. >> suffered a fire and power outage. two dozen public toilets are working. conditions have been described as dismal. carnival has already canceled 12 future trips. i hope so. >> they need to sink it. >> full refunds. a credit for a future cruise. >> yeah. line me up. >> and 500 bucks. people on board the ship say it's a floating sewer. the hallways are flooded with just the worst things you could imagine. >> sign me up. but at least for lunch they have onion sandwiches. "new york times," michael bloomberg plans to announce a ban on plastic foam containers. the ban would cover everything from takeout boxes to cups and trays. bloomberg compares the impact of plastic foam to lead paint. the mayor says he could make the proposal in his final state of the city speech today. what say you, michael bloomberg
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friend? >> michael bloomberg friend says he's -- look, the guy has been on the vanguard of a lot of things that we now take for granted like smoking in bars and smoking in restaurants and things like that. transfats, posting these calorie -- i know, joe, you don't like any of this -- >> posting calorie counts. >> you stayed away from the munchkin. >> i did. >> barnicle dove in. you stayed away. barnicle dove in. >> i love those. i love those. >> so i think, look, this is his next -- and he's getting close to the end. and mike bloomberg is determined that he is going to get as much done as he can in his remaining 320 days. >> so what that means, willie, is we've got to go to jersey. >> stock up. >> to get our big gulps and foam containers. >> right through the tunnel. >> we could do that. meeting on the other side. >> i'm with him on this one. every time you get takeout, you have it for five minutes, you throw it away. it lasts forever. there must be some alternative. >> what are they going to put the takeout in? >> a paper bag? that's going to work. >> your pocket?
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>> you ever been to, like, whole foods? >> they use the same thing. >> it's a paper product. and you can recycle it. i'll teach you about it sometime. with us now, chief white house correspondent for "politico," mike allen here with a look at the playbook. good morning. >> morning and happy valentine's day. aww, thanks, mike. >> and all you bosses out there should follow the lead of secretary of state john kerry. be like secretary kerry, something that you'll read in "playbook" today. he told his senior staff, no late meetings today. he said i want you guys out of here for valentine's day. >> there you go. beyond that, mike, you guys are reporting in "politico" that senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts taking what you're calling a silent approach on capitol hill. what do you mean by that? >> well, and this is really smart. this is the approach that senator clinton of new york took when she got here, senator al franken of minnesota. these high-profile personalities who come into the senate where
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the other senators really don't care how famous you are. and they just care about seniority. so senator warren, surprisingly and very smartly, kept an extremely low profile, doing very few interviews, very little national media focusing on massachusetts media. even if you want to grab her in the hall and in the capitol, you have this great tradition where a lot of senators will stop for you, give you a quick quote. she won't stop. she told our reporters the other day when they tried to get a quote from her, she said, i'm walking right now. so she's focused on massachusetts. she's done a gun-control event with boston mayor thomas menino. doing a tour after nemo with the governor. one exception, when aig was dumbly thinking of suing the government, she came out and blasted them and got a lot of attention for it. but that's another reason this is smart. when she does say something, it sets off an earthquake. >> mike, this is a smart
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approach, isn't it? >> absolutely. plus, she's also very quickly the senior senator from massachusetts. >> right. >> because there was an open seat. there's a young lawyer, mo collin, filling that seat. warren and her staff are representing a bulk of the state constituency request at this point. >> we have not heard the last of elizabeth warren. >> says her biggest supporter. >> we have not heard the last. as you said in the aig thing, issues she cares so passionately about, she will be out there, and we'll see what happens. >> and how does that make you feel, steve? why don't you share with the group? >> i will tell you that it makes every banker on wall street quake in their boots. >> makes them nervous. hey, jane, it is important for new members, especially new members that come in with a high profile, to keep their head down on the hill, right? >> i agree. al franken did that. ted cruz hasn't gotten the memo.
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>> no, he hasn't. >> i think it's very smart of her. she's got enormous brain power and popularity. and she should use it judiciously. freshmen silence has a good ring to it. and those who practice it, i think, get a lot farther. >> steve, you're just going to have to pay attention to local boston media to keep tabs on your friend, elizabeth warren. >> i think it will get beyond local boston media before this is over. >> mike allen with a look at the playbook, thanks so much. >> have a great day. bosses, get your people out of there. up next, will ferrell throws his support behind candidate for mayor of los angeles. we'll show you his endorsement next. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up
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welcome back to "morning joe." 6:38 here in new york. joe's watching a will ferrell video. yesterday will ferrell showed up with a surprising political endorsement. he wants los angeles councilman eric garcetti to be the city's next mayor. here is will ferrell's endorsement. >> for years it was known that if you messed with ache iror "e"
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squared, then you messed with ferrell or sweet buns as i called myself. eric is always the idea guy. when i joined the air force to fly cargo planes, it was eric who said, why are you doing that? you're afraid of planes and you're 38 years old. good advice. and when eric was about to throw away a silly little song he had written on a lark, i said, wait. there's something there. that song was later recorded by olivia newton-john. "let's get physical." the greatest song ever made. eric has always been there for me. and now it's time to let eric garcetti be there for los angeles. i can't speak for what eric will do as mayor, but i can promise you this. if you vote for him, there will be free waffles every tuesday morning for the whole city of los angeles! huh? oh. okay. okay, apparently there's no way that can happen. >> it's will ferrell for eric garcetti. garcetti, the son of a former l.a. county district attorney.
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he's one of about 15 candidates in the race. but off to a good start with will ferrell. by the way, two nights ago will ferrell also in los angeles. the fans were surprised to see him posing as a security guard. and he ejected spectator shaquille o'neal from the arena. he came out during a time-out in one of the matching red blazers the security guards wear. stood there quietly, then pointed at shaq and threw him out of the gym, for reasons to be earn didded. determined. had a creative name on the name tag. >> yes. >> you have to look it up for yourself. teddy v., they call him. >> teddy v. >> a good couple days for will ferrell. coming up next, steve rattner's got some charts to show us about what's happening to middle-class incomes and the rising debt levels they are saddled with. steve's charts when "morning joe" comes right back. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.
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where did we pull this one? a great song, man. >> i know. >> what is that, staircase -- what's the name of the group again? >> that's like 1974 or '75. >> it's earlier than that, baby. it's like '71. >> that was an oldie when i was a youngie. >> turn it up. this is like our valentine's day special for old people. ♪ i'll be spending time okay. anyway. i love you more today than yesterday. but not as much as tomorrow. thank you, "q." that's a flash from the past. so we're going to read the ceo of tivo, tom rogers, has written something where he picked up, i guess, in the daily beast on a conversation we had last week. i'm shocked, wherever i go, and
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josh green told me, he's talking to economists. he's talking to ceos. they're all talking about the back-and-forth that we had with paul krugman on this show. richard haass, president of the council on foreign relations, says all people are talking about at dinner where he goes. i take it you've heard an awful lot. again, paul krugman coming on this show and saying we don't really have to worry about long-term debt. we're not going to let deficits -- he's got a lot of twitter followers, and a lot of them are uneducated and don't know the difference between deficits and debt. but we're not talking about deficits. we're talking about long-term debt. and that's really sparked this huge debate and has really -- i think he's jarred a lot of people, progressive economist jeffrey sachs, columbia university, says it's a dangerous notion. i know you and a lot of other people believe it's a very dangerous notion. say we're going to worry about long-term debt once our entitlement programs start
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meltingdown. >> yeah. when he was on the show, he said it was only the fifth or sixth biggest thing he worries about in the economy. yes, there are other things to worry about. the idea you wait till you get there and then you make whoever is still there pay for all this is crazy. to your point, i'm involved with a group of 140 ceos from major companies all over the country. and we haven't had a meeting to discuss krugman, but from the conversations i've had, they couldn't disagree with him more about the importance of dealing with this now for the future, but at least starting to address it now. >> yeah, alan blinder, of course, fellow princeton professor and former, i think, vice chair of the fed, was talking about the horrific problem that we're going to face with long-term debt ten years off. it's an extraordinarily serious problem. and it's dangerous when somebody with a nobel prize goes out there and says we don't have to worry about the debt. and he confuses a lot of people who, again, what shocked me is there have been a lot of bloggers who have been writing about this who don't know the
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difference between deficit and debt. they don't know that when you talk about long-term debt, you're talking about 2020. and when you're talking about deaf silt deficits, you're talking about 2013 and 2014, as we say all the time, deficits don't kill us, but next decade's debt does. >> exactly. until krugman started weighing in, i think there was a consensus that this was a problem. it was a long-term problem but one you had to start to address now. and what krugman has done with his million twitter followers, being the most read columnist on "the new york times," he's given respectability to the idea that debt doesn't matter. and so he's allowed other people to sort of gather around him and change the debate from how do we fix the problem to is there a problem that we need to fix? and i think that is very dangerous. >> it is dangerous. it's frightening. he is, again, among respectable economists. he is almost alone out there. is that not fair to say? >> i think the vast preponderance of economists would disagree with him,
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absolutely. >> there was one guy who wrote some blog, here are 111 -- a -- this is the sort of thing that unfortunately the vast ignorance out there, one guy said here are 11 economists joe scarborough should read, and 9 of the 11 were talking about deficits, short-term -- saying the same exact thing that i say. the same thing that allan blindr is saying we need to worry about short-term deficits. also we can't tax our way out of the problem. it is so big, medicare, medicaid, health care costs, that you can't raise taxes enough to fix this problem. >> look, the basic point here is, it's a huge problem, but it's an intergenerational issue, right? we are borrowing today from our children. >> we're stealing from our children. >> we are going to leave our children this debt. and my view is that we have to, at some point soon, i get the point about short-term deficits, but at some point soon we have to start making some down payments against that debt. paul krugman's argument is let's
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not worry about it now. let's worry about it in 2020 at which point the debt will be 20, $25 trillion, who knows? and then your children and your children and our children, even, are going to have to pay for this. >> and people in their 40s and 50s will not get medicare. they will not get social security in the current state. if we take care of it now, if we're responsible now, then we'll be fine later on. >> i look at my kids who are in their early 20s and i think to myself, my kids are going to have to pay for this debt, my medicare, my social security, all the stuff we're racking up right now. do you know the average medicare person who is about at retirement age pays something like $85,000 or $87,000 into the system, receive $650,000 of lifetime benefits. >> so jane, let me read from tom rogers' op-ed. "paul krugman may find this difficult to believe, but i very much accept the proposition that unemployment remains the economy's biggest issue and that we need to smartly target short-term stimulus and a real plan for long-term debt
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reduction. again, our position here. i also categorically reject the krugmanesque notion that all the participating ceos disfavor the idea of short-term stimulus and are debt scrooges. an appreciation of the position of ceos like myself combined with a more generous reading of the november election results than is common, should help inform how the president, congress and business address the challenge of short-term economic growth and long-term deficits. and it leads to the conclusion that people like me might be of some help in breaking the gridlock. jane, i think we have a consensus except for the most extreme tea party members on the right and paul krugman on the left that we all agree. we can't have david cameron's austerity plan right now. >> let me put a few more things on the table. first of all, the long-term debt is not static. it's getting bigger. so this mountain will be higher. i don't think anyone's arguing for zero debt ever. i'm arguing -- and i think you
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all agree -- for a balanced budget. i voted for one. so did you, joe, i think in 1997 which passed by overwhelming margins and led to prosperity for five years. but nonetheless, we have to have a strategy to reduce our long-term debt. and part of that is entitlement reform which the president hinted at. another big part of it is tax reform which the president endorsed. and the third part, i think, is a responsible short-term stimulus like an infrastructure bank which can include private financing to build jobs and build prosperity and build our tax base. so there are sensible strategies that everyone, most everyone, should get behind to reduce our long-term debt. and if we don't do it, you're right, that our children and grandchildren are going to be stuck in a hole. >> steve, real quick. we seem to govern and do things in this country now by crisis. so when is the debt crisis? if paul krugman's right that it's not coming for a while and this is not the time to address it, when is the moment where
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we're forced to do something about it? >> the problem is, it's a bit like the parabel of the boiling frog. you turn the heat up and it takes a long time and suddenly the frog realizes he's just gotten boiled. that's the problem. we don't know when that temperature is going to hit boiling point. the markets could wake up and do something one day. i don't think that's the most likely scenario. my guess is the markets allow us to keep going like this. and syme in 2020 or something like that, we suddenly realize we have now $25 trillion in debt. >> there's a meltdown. and of course, krugman's argument is i'm right because it hasn't happened yet. that's like me saying i'm not going to buy life insurance because guess what? i haven't died yet. no, seriously. you know, people have been telling me to get life insurance since i was 25. those fools. because guess what? i'm alive! every day they say, the responsible thing to do, because you have children, is to get life insurance. >> i like that. >> every single day i hear from them. they are scrooges. they keep telling me i'm going to die. look, i'm here.
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i'm not going to die. why should i plan ahead? >> we can give you life insurance advice during the break. so let me just say this. >> no, but that is krugman's argument. you know what? the economy hasn't collapsed yet. so why do these scrooges keep saying -- >> it's a stupid argument. >> it's my life insurance argument. >> the dell is real. >> and guess what? i'm going to die. and so i need to get life insurance, and we need to plan ahead as well as the country. again, the people that come on this show, most of them, other than me, are keynesians. >> since you don't even have life insurance, what makes you think you can give advice to the rest of the country as to how to manage -- >> i think you're missing my point. >> i got your point. i got your point. >> but no, the irony here is that it's not right-wing conservatives that are attacking krugman. again, it's people like jeffrey sachs, you, democrats, supporters of barack obama that are saying, this is crazy. >> you're right. it is. all the way from the right to the center and a lot of the
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left. there's a small group of people who are following krugman. and there's a large group of people that don't frankly understand these issues who will follow him anywhere. >> that's the vast majority of people that follow him. they don't know of the difference between deficit and debt. >> but the centrists understand the problem. >> that's great. thank you so much, jane harman. it's great to have you here. please come back. >> thank you. i'll be back. happy valentine's day. >> and steve, your valentine's present to all of us are your charts. laced with love. we're going to see those coming up next. also, mika is jetting in from the south of france as we speak. she'll be here soon. egular hear. the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke. [ gps ] turn left. i don't think so. [ male announcer ] for years, bob took warfarin, and made a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but not anymore. bob's doctor recommended a different option:
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when we come back, we'll be reading you some ignorant texts, tweets and e-mails from people that don't understand the difference between deficits and debt. they are out in full force this morning, and they make us smile. reverend al sharpton is here, leigh gallagher as well. they're standing by in the green room. we're going to be talking about steve rattner's charts, wayne lapierre's crazed, insane op-ed and much more. es crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.
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in the short time that i've been here in washington, nothing has frustrated me more than false promises like the ones the president laid out tonight. the choices between big government and big business. >> that's when you get when you eat a whole bag of pretzels before your speech. it would have been less awkward if he reached down the front of his pants to get it. it would have been less awkward had he been wearing one of these on his head during the speech. >> that would have been a good idea. welcome back to "morning joe." steve rattner is still with us. joining us on the set, the host of msnbc's "politics nation" and the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. >> good morning. >> reverend, we're going on the road, man. >> that's right. >> we are. we're not sure where we're going. >> and we're going to bring marco rubio to amateur night at
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the apollo. >> stop it. come on, now. don't you ever get thirsty? >> yeah. >> when you're preaching, do you not reach down and get some water once in a while? >> i never stop and go six feet away and drink it and keep my eye on the camera. >> that was a problem. >> that was a problem. >> you've got to own the water bottle. everything you do, man, you go for it. >> and you have to have it within reach and it's got to go with the flow of your sermon. >> you know what i'm going to do? i'm going to blame the staff for that. >> really? >> yeah, they put it a football field away. he was exhausted by the time he got back. also from "fortune" magazine, leigh gallagher. i want to talk about wayne lapierre. i think he's lost his mind. before we do, we're having fun with twitter. we talked about paul krugman, how you want to have stimulus in the short run, how we can handle deficits in the short run, but we need to plan for 2020. and of course, krugman's fans are tweeting nasty e-mails to you and me. they just don't get it. they really just are not -- they cannot hold in their heads f.
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scott fitzgerald would be very disappointed, they cannot hold two conflicting ideas in their head at the same time. >> not even two conflicting ideas. two ideas that are complimentary, they fit together. >> because if you grow the economy in the short run, that actually takes down debt in the long run. you're right, they're not even conflicting. i guess they can't walk and chew gum. >> so it would seem. >> read the really nice one. we got so many of them. >> here's one. hey, blank, word i can't say, the job crisis is here now. and it's dangerous to suggest we concentrate on the debt now. >> i would like to just blame that ignorance on a lone twitter follower in his mom's basement in his underwear eating cheetos. there are a lot of bloggers that also confuse the difference between the deficit and the debt. and it's mind boggling. krugman followers somehow, like you said, they can't figure out that we can grow the economy now, and we can plan for the future at the same time.
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and again, they're complimentary, but it's frustrating, leigh. i mean, the debt crisis is upon us. we plan for it now. we grow the economy now. it helps us later. >> it's true. you nailed it. growth makes everything better. you know, it's like sunnier when there is growth. taxes are higher. there's more income. it pushes everybody into higher income tax brackets. it's better for everybody. that is what we need. i do think what you said earlier, it's true. most people agree that we need both. i mean, both are issues right now. it's sort of the extreme left and the extreme right where the, you know, differentiation is. and it's possible to do both. and we need a balanced approach. what we need to do is consensus, and that's been the hard thing. >> i think most americans have reached a consensus, though, except for the extremes both sides, i think most americans know we've got to grow the american in the short run and take care of the long-term debt. there is not a consensus, though, on guns. did you see what wayne lapierre said yesterday? >> i thought it was the most
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despicable, biased statement i've heard in a long time. i mean, to really profile latinos and south brooklyn -- >> and by the way, south brooklyn, seriously, i am so sick and tired of him picking on my son and his friends who go out and drink in park slope. that is just not kind. actually, i'm joking. he's not talking about my kids, and he ain't talking about park slope. that was so tinged with racial bias. playing to the lowest common denominator. and let's see if there's one republican or one nra-supporting democrat that will step out today and condemn him for a racially tinged attack. >> i think that the key is going to be who steps out and calls him out on this. and say he has really lowered the standard of those that respect an nra rating because now you're way out there as an extreme bigot with this. >> listen to this. stand and fight. this is what he says. it's in "the daily caller."
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after hurricane sandy, we saw the hellish world that the gun prohibitionists see as their utopia. looters ran wild in south brooklyn. there was no food, water or electricity. and if you wanted to walk several miles to get supplies, you better get back before dark, or you might not get home at all. nobody knows if or when the fiscal collapse will come, but if the country is broke, there likely won't be enough money to pay for police protection. wayne lapierre is arguing with a straight face. and he says and the american people know it. really? let's take a poll, wayne, and see how many members of the survivalist wing of the nra are out there who believe that we're not going to be able to afford police protection in the future. i think maybe 1, 1.5%. he goes on to say this. hurricanes. tornadoes. riots. terrorist gangs. lone criminals. these are the perils we are sure
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to face, not just maybe. it's not paranoia to buy a gun. no, it's not. it's survival. it's responsible behavior, and it's time we encourage law-abiding americans to do just that. steve, i mean, wayne lapierre is arguing that the united states economy is going to collapse. he's arguing that we're not going to even be able to afford police protection. he's arguing that hispanics are going to flood into america and continue killing americans. and he says, talks about latin american drug gangs that you'd better go out and buy a gun so you can kill hispanics because they're coming for you. and then he argues -- he talks about south brooklyn. and he might as well say, hey, white people, you'd better get a gun because you know what? when a hurricane comes, those black people are going to come after you. is this mainstream political thought? in the republican party or among
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conservative democrats? >> no, of course not. >> of course not. >> and so to be contrarian for a second, i kind of like that he's doing this because he's doing a thelma and louise all by himself. he's taking himself over the cliff and making sense for those of us do want change to get that done. >> he's like the gift that keeps on giving, as jane harman said. he's moving to the margin of the margin to the margin of the margin. that is good news for people who believe that we need more change and more legislation to conform it. >> and again, what we're not even talking here about right now because nobody believes it's going to pass right now, the assault weapons ban. that's not going to pass this year. even the high-capacity magazine legislation is probably not going to pass this year. right now, though, we're talking about background checks. to make sure that felons don't get guns. to make sure people who are mentally ill don't get guns. we're talking about gun trafficking laws to make sure people don't do what they're doing in pensacola, my hometown,
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reports of guys going outside of schools after hours opening up the trunk selling guns for 15, 20 minutes, bushmasters, then when the cops start to come, close it and drive off. certainly nobody at this point, reverend al, could stand in the way of legislation that 95% of americans support. certainly nobody today would be stupid enough to defend what wayne lapierre said yesterday. and i'm sure they're all running away from it. we've got a feed from capitol hill. let's see who's on. >> my democratic colleagues want to expand the background check law to make us all feel that we're safer. my retort to my democratic friends is that you can't really feel safe by expanding a broken law. we talk a lot about new laws. we talk about the emotional aspects of gun violence. we don't seem to be doing very much in the real world to make it -- to deter people. >> i'm not talking about
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emotion. i'm talking about i want my kids to be safe. i want my family to be safe. i want your family to be safe. i want to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons. i want americans to have a second amendment right to keep and bear arms, to protect themselves and their families inside their house, to carry. i said it myself. i personally think i should be able to carry in new york. i can't. okay, fine. but you know what? we should be able to have a background check that keeps guns out of criminals' hands. 92% of americans agree with me. only 7% of americans don't. so the question, reverend al, is why are people like lindsey graham and a lot of republicans and some democrats on capitol hill still doing wayne lapierre's bidding? >> i think that's going to be the question that we have to keep raising. from the right and the left. because i think the target here is not wayne. the target here is those that
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give comfort to wayne and credibility to wayne because we all understand where he is. >> by the way, that's about money. >> well, of course it is. >> he ain't crazy. he likes money. >> he works for the manufacturers. >> the gun manufacturers are making lots of money. >> right. >> it sounds crazy, but it's very simple. he's trying to scare americans and appealing to their racist side. >> the boogey man is coming. the people in south carolina need to ask graham, why are you dealing with this? why are you giving credibility to this? why are you -- and those moderate democratic states. because the question is, if we have 92% of americans saying that clearly background checks is not controversial, clearly i don't think even the magazines of 100 rounds is not as controversial as they make it. i mean, we're not talking about -- you think you should have the right to bear arms in new york. some of us may disagree. >> why is that?
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>> you and i would both agree you don't have the right to have a 100-round magazine walking around times square. >> hold on a second. let me tell you this. i don't have the constitutional right to carry in new york. you know why? because scalia and the united states supreme court said joe, you've got a right to keep and bear arms, a right to protect your family, a right to have a handgun in your house, i right to have a hunting rifle, a right to have a shotgun, but governments have a right to stop you from carrying. they've got a right, if they want. it is not a second amendment right for me to carry in new york. >> that's correct. that's the clarity that the supreme court made. >> do i like that? no, i don't. but guess what? i can take that up in the voting booth in new york or in connecticut or in florida or whatever. but we're talking about background checks here. to keep guns out of the hands of the felons. and they can't even agree on that. why do they want felons to be able to get guns? why do they want people who are
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mentally ill to be able to get guns? why are they stopping the government, which they have for a long time, from doing their jobs and enforcing the laws that are already on the books? they're not doing it. this is sensible. and i'm telling you, it's coming. it's coming. republicans are going to pay a price for this. and conservative democrats are, too. if they don't get ahead of the curve and say we're going to fight for the second amendment. you and i, we disagree on stop and frisk. right? we have a big disagreement on that. >> absolutely. >> i personally think new york city is safer than chicago now because bloomberg has enacted some of these policies. we can have that debate. >> we don't disagree. new york is safer. and they've stopped using stop and frisk a lot. this is our debate. you can't have half the statistic, joe. they've gone down on using stop and frisk and crime has gone down, which proves my point. stop and frisk does not bring crime down. look at the whole data.
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>> you are so wrong, it makes my teeth hurt. but i can respect you. and we can talk about this. >> i hate to make your teeth hurt on valentine's day. >> i know. but anyway, the point is, there are a lot of things we can do. a lot of things we can do. and a lot of debates we can have. we can debate stop and frisk and so many other things. but you know what? don't tell me that keeping guns out of felons' hands violates your second amendment right. it's not in the second amendment. in fact, assault weapons aren't in the second amendment. high-capacity magazines aren't in the second amendment. read heller from 2008 and stop following extremist survivalists in your party, and your country would be a lot better off. let's talk about the middle class. >> let's talk about the middle class. >> the middle class is hurting right now. >> the president talked a lot about the middle class. let's look at some numbers to show how bad it actually is for the middle class. first we'll take a look at median incomes. you mentioned this yesterday on the show, joe. here are some numbers to put behind it. middle-class incomes actually
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peaked back in the year 2000 at about $55,000. >> of course, my last year in congress, but go ahead. >> well, you weren't part of the middle class back then. and then we had a recession. then they went back up a bit. and then they've been going down ever since down to $50,000. so you've had this decline of over 10% in middle-class income over the last 12 years. >> when did the decline start? >> actually in the year 2000. it went down. we had a recovery. but for the first time in history in the year 2007 during the recovery, it didn't even get back to where it was in 2000. on an inflation-adjusted basis before it started going down again. >> are we talking about corporations becoming more and more efficient in a way that actually is hurting middle-class workers? >> in a nutshell, we're talking about that. >> doing more with less. >> doing more with less, globalization, outsourcing the labor, downward pressure on labor. let's look at the impact the
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housing bubble had. back in the early '80s and '9 ', between $90,000 and $100,000. >> steve, can i take you back to the left? so when does that steep incline begin in the 1990s? what year is that? >> it begins in about 1993, 1994 during the clinton years. that's not a political statement. that's just to say we had an era of prosperity in the '90s. >> it was in the explosion of i.t. it was the i.t. revolution that really started taking off. >> high productivity, high economic growth, i.t. it was prosperity, stock market was going up, it was a good time for everyone. >> can we keep that chart up, guys? only because a lot of that also money was, let's just say it, a lot of that growth through the late '90s was fueled by a bubble. >> correct. >> an internet bubble. >> correct. >> and then the bubble continues, and it becomes a housing bubble. i guess my point here, steve, is there was some productivity, but you look at that steep incline, you've got two massive bubbles
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that contributed to that explosion in median income. >> but you also had real things happening. fundamental growth is now back to real terms to where it was in the early 1980s. in fact, the average family is no better off today in terms of his net worth than he was in the 1980s. >> so is $93,000 the average -- >> that's the average family net worth including your home, including everything you've got. but let's look at debt. >> i was going to say, if that's salary, that's pretty good. >> we did salary. that was net worth. >> i have a hard time following. i've been reading too many of paul krugman's blogs. go ahead. i'm sorry. >> english major. >> debt levels. and this is incorporated in the net worth numbers. just to show you what the american family is dealing with, all this inflation has tripled since the late 1980s. the middle class is now laboring under this average. $70,000 in debt. and then finally, so you want to see what the impact is on them and how they feel and why the
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president, i think, is talking so much about the middle class, take a look at this pew poll in which you can see what's happened to optimism among the middle class. if you go back to the year 2008, you had 50% of people who thought their children would be better off than they are today. and then just four years later, that was down to 43%. and then correspondingly, the percent of people who think their children will be worse off. so all of this is why i think you see correctly, reverend, so much focus on the middle class and the problems of the middle class. the president went yesterday to a factory in north carolina. and touted those jobs. 160 jobs. for small-government conservatives, $18 million of local subsidies to get those jobs there. for liberals, a right-to-work state. so no unions. those jobs pay $40,000 a year. not terrible, but below median incomes. >> i tell you what, leigh. we are going to see -- and you know, we have, over the past year, because he deserved it, we have poked a lot of fun at texas
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governor rick perry because he just embarrassed himself. when he ran for president. but he had -- and the "new york post" has it as their top editorial -- he did something great. he went to california and started running ads saying starting a business is really tough. but i tell you what, it's especially tough, i hear, in california. if you want a better tax code, less regulation, less trial lawyers chasing after you, come to texas, and we'll help you grow. i really think we're going to see a divide in the coming years. you're already seeing all the car plants, a lot of the airbus plants, they're moving to the southeast. >> we are. and there's also a huge shale boom, obviously, in north dakota. and that entire corridor. if you look at unemployment rates, they're very -- we are increasingly turning into a regionalized country where there will be pockets of growth. they won't be the same pockets we used to see. things are shaping up along different lines. >> the northeast is getting left
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behind in a sense. it really is because you look at the tech boom, of course, out in california and, of course, the energy boom in the midwest, in the southeast, some of these manufacturing jobs are coming back. the northeast has got to get their game going, man. >> well, the problem is those that can't afford to move around like that. i think that's why steve's chart indicates why the president's emphasis is where it is. talking about the middle class and the poor who can't run the north dakota or texas. and who have to live with an economy that has really began shrinking for those that were comfortable just a few years ago. and those that have never been in a comfort zone pushed even further down. you've got to stimulate the economy for them. you've got to have jobs. austerity is not the answer. >> i agree with you. here's something we can agree on. cut corporate tax rates. stimulate the economy. >> make fair corporate tax rates. and stimulate the economy with
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revenue. >> cutting corporate tax rates would have a zero impact on the economy. >> it's not enough. >> i'm sorry to say that, joe. >> i actually was just saying it to poke at the reverend. i was having fun. >> it got to me. >> joe, in addition to steve's middle-class debts, you have to look at what's happening to the top, which is the overall wealth of the top 400 people in this country has reached a record high, corporate profits are at a record high. it's not that the companies are terrible, they're not hiring anybody. that's not the entire story. some of this is globalization, technological advancements. nevertheless, the trends are like this. >> they really are. and by the way, it's important. a lot of people say george w. bush's tax cuts, that's happening in the entire western world. it goes back to the i.t. revolution. corporations becoming more productive. people being able to be individual players out there, make a remarkable fortune. it's not like, you know, it was 50 years ago where you set up a factory in dayton, ohio, and
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entire naked neighborhood and s their kids to cool. still ahead, we'll be talking to hewlett-packard ceo carly fee reno, former ceo. and up next, an uncertain future for the catholic church. that's the topic of this week's "time" magazine. we have got rick stengel here to join us next. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] ok, here's the way the system works. let's say you pay your guy around 2% to manage your money.
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welcome back to "morning joe." a beautiful look at sunrise this valentine's day over reagan national airport. let's bring in right now "time" magazine managing editor rick stengel. he's here to reveal the latest issue of "time." i heard you and steve rattner talking before about some changes at "time." what's happening over there? >> yes. actually, "fortune," our sister publication, broke the story yesterday that time warner was in talks to split off time inc.
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>> they're going to sell time inc.? >> it looks like they're going to sell time inc. >> maybe we can get rattner to buy it for us. >> that's what i was talking to him about. >> oh, good. >> he's thinking about putting in a bid. >> there he is. he's over there. that's like change for you, man. that's, like, spending. you know, weekend money for you. >> yeah. i've got it. >> he's going to write a check right now. >> but, you know, the good news for "time" is that we will stay part of time warner. "time" and "fortune" and "sports illustrated," which i think makes a lot of sense. again, i only know what i read in the paper. >> okay. well, very good. so let's talk about some changes also in another institution that's been around just a few more years. >> yes. >> than "time." >> yes. >> not many, but a few more. >> yes. right. they had a once in 600-year
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event. >> exactly. what in the world happened in rome last week? >> you know, as you know, joe, i'm not a theological scholar. >> i know that. these are the only -- by the way, you know everything in your magazine. these theological discussions are the only time that you sort of stumble around. >> i have a one-page essay by meacham about the pope. so i'm going to make a political analogy to it. the pope resigning is a little like what george washington did when he decided after two terms to retire to his farm and not be president for life, which is basically what even the constitutional convention wanted. so the pope, by resigning, is basically saying there's a new model now. and that model is, you know, when a pope becomes feeble, when he's too old, you pass the baton, as it were, on to the next guy. >> scepter. >> exactly. >> why did he do it? >> i think as the change is radical, but the result will be actually quite conservative
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because i think a living pope in retirement has more power than a dead pope does. and i think in the last couple of years, he has named many new cardinals, many of them are from the kind of italian curia that is the traditional source of popes until really pope john paul. and i think we'll end up with a similarly conservative pope. >> yeah, reverend al asked me during the commercial break what i thought. not that i would know anything about who's going to be the next pope. but one thing's for certain. given the last two popes' selection of cardinals throughout the world, they are all invariably quite conservative. so the next pope is going to, more probably than not, be similarly conservative. it's a bag job, the college of cardinals. they have rigged the deck. they have rigged the deck. >> but what you'll have, too -- >> spoken like a true catholic. >> you could have the first african pope. you could have the first latino
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pope. but ironically, those guys would be very conservative. you know, the growth of the church in africa is a very conservative movement. the same thing in latin america, although there's a bit of a protestant refirmation. he will be very conservative. >> everybody's talking about the possibility of an african pope. i just don't think it's going to happen for the same reason -- you know, as with the anglican church and the catholic church, the most conservative part of the church is in africa. and i don't think the college of cardinals want to go that way. it has nothingntinent continents. it has everything to do with ideology. anglicans has been tied up in knots by the conservatism of africa. >> that's important, and i'm glad rick said that because people would assume that if they hear, oh, we may have the first
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african pope or the first latino pope, that that means that's not conservative, and that's not true. >> right. >> because it's very conservative in my travels. >> it would still be healthy. >> it would be healthy from an optical standpoint. >> mike. >> but not healthy -- >> it would be healthy for a week and a half until the media started writing stories about the theological beliefs of the church in africa. which would be too conservative. can i just say i still think clarence thomas is very healthy. >> i know you do. >> the cardinals from africa and from latin american would be younger, and they would be more aware of the fact that the church is at a watershed moment in many parts of the world, especially in the united states. where they're losing young catholics in droves. not attending mass and not adhering to the faith and not raising their children in the catholic faith because of the
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rigid conservative doctrine. we're going to end up here in the united states and perhaps in other parts of the world with very few priests. you're going to have 92-year-old priests on the altar. >> i'm not a catholic. so i'm not going to advocate what they should do. and i don't think the answer is moving away from orthodoxy all the time, but i will tell you, when i went to pensacola catholic high school in the early '80s, it was filled with nuns and fathers. and when i went back to coach football five years later, there were a lot less nuns. when my son went there, you know, a handful. i mean, it is -- there's no doubt about it, this is a church in crisis. >> but if you're looking at it from the perspective of the catholic church, which in a way we're not, they're seeing the browning of the catholic church. they're seeing the catholic church growi ining in the third world, africa and asia, and it's
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becoming a different religion. it may become a religion even more than it was in the history of the religion of the poor. >> that's the root of the faith. >> but also a more conservative faith in many ways also. you've got another great story in here, the most expensive weapon ever built. and this is a great story for all those who are carping about how a few cuts in the defense department with the sequester is going to savage america's national defense structure. it just simply is not. this story is a great example of just how forward thinking ike was when he warned of the growing industrial military complex. it is described in this piece. >> right. and the irony, of course, is that the f-35, which will be the most expensive weapon system ever built, was conceived as a fighter for all three services. remember, each of the different services would have their own warplanes. but what has happened, it's become a kind of -- like a camel is is a horse designed by committee, it's a jet that has all kinds of different things
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that in many ways is about fighting the last war. you know the old saying, every general fights the last war. well, generals also order up weapons for the last war. there's a lot about this plane, and this piece was written by mark thompson if in our washington bureau that is 20th century. we did a cover a few weeks ago about drone warfare. it is the modern aerial warfare. these planes are expensive. they put pilots at risk. they may be fighting the last war. and again, it's a great piece to read on the eve of this discussion of the sequester because what mark also described is that the pentagon signed deals before the end of the year worth about $5 billion to make sure that the money was flowing before the sequester. >> $400 billion for this one weapon program. >> that's a lot of dough. >> that is a lot of dough. the cover is "the once and future pope." rick stengel, thanks for being
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with us. coming up next, the first pictures of olympian and double amputee sprinter oscar pistorius after he's accused of shooting and killing his girlfriend. this is a guy who was the hero of london, sort of the field-good story last summer. now he is in jail accused of murder. we're going to have the latest straight ahead on "morning joe." [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso.
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breaking news out of south africa. olympic runner oscar pistorius is a suspect in the shooting death of his girld friefriend. early this morning reeva steenkamp, 30-year-old model, was found shot four times at pistorius' home. known as the blade runner, he's known as a double amputee who was one of the most visible olympians at the london games. the 26-year-old was receive leaving a police station en route to a court appearance to be charged with murder. police said pistorius and his girlfriend were the only people present at the time of the shooting and that there had been, quote, previous incidents at the home. up next, the women who made america a new documentary on the biggest names behind the women's movement. we have two subjects on the film, co-founder of "ms." magazine and her daughter and former producer for "60
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minutes," abby poegerman. we're going to be right back. scalpel.
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if you take care of your car your car will take care of you. as letty became a feminist, the first things she began to change were in her own home. >> my husband and i would finish dinner, and i would say, i'm not getting up to clear the table, because, and then i'd give him some track to explain how outrageous that a woman would work all day, come home, make dinner, clear the table and her husband would go sit and read the paper. >> for me, it was an intellectual process. i just saw the logic and the basic fairness of principles. i couldn't deny them intellectually. so i adopted them. >> all right. that was a clip from the pbs
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documentary "makers: women who make america. a film about the evolution of women's roles over the past 50 years. with us, the mother/daughter pair featured in the film, founding editor of "ms." magazine, letty pogrebin and writer abby pogrebin. thanks for being here again. >> thanks for having us. >> i look at that clip, and it's a generational thing. what was radical when you did that was actually pretty normal by the time i grew up. i'd see my dad sitting on the couch and go, can you get me a sandwich? everybody would turn to him and say, get it yourself! it wasn't that way. >> it was very radical at the time. i was working full time. so was he. yet i would come home and bake bread in order to make stuffing for the turkey. >> you didn't even think twice about it, did you? >> no. it just was some role i was born into. and when i became a feminist, i read myself into radicalism. i suddenly looked around and said, this is ridiculous. i can't justify it.
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and so my husband and i used to sit after dinner and read these tracts that i just referred to. >> right. so what was the breakthrough for you? was it the feminine mystique? >> no, i had actually not related to the feminine mystique because that was about women who were sort of stuck in the suburbs. and i already had a career. i had three children, but i was able to have help. and i felt okay about my life. then suddenly i'm reading all this stuff about, you know, the myth of the vaginal orgasm and how the politics of house -- >> she had to bring that up to embarrass the daughter. that was invented in, what, 1967? >> '68. >> '68 is when that was invented. fantastic. >> it haven't invented, it was outed. >> somebody came up with that in a lab. >> they're all authentic now. >> you wonder 5,000 years before where that thing was hiding. >> it's amazing what this program shows you about where we came from, that we had to get our husbands' permission to get
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credit cards, savings accounts, insurance. you would open "the new york times" and only be able to apply for a woman-only job. there were columns, men only, women only. so this was a very different world. you were born into a liberated universe. >> i was born into a liberated universe, but, you know, abby, people like your mother, people like nora ephron who we dearly loved and who was a trendsetter her whole life. you know, she said when she first started working, i think at "newsweek," she didn't think twice about being a writer at the beginning because that just wasn't done. things have changed so much because of people like your mom. >> my generation and certainly my daughters now, i have a 13-year-old, they have no idea how limited their options were because we've grown up, you know, with a smorgasbord that she actually laid the table for us. but that table didn't used to exist. and this film which really should be required viewing because it's not only great history. it's great filmmaking.
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it's just as alive and colorful as any documentary i've ever seen. so i'm proud to be in it for two minutes. the thing about the documentary is that it really shows you just how extreme the sexism was and how blatant, how unapologetic people were about saying incredible things about women's capability or lack of capability. so, you know, those of us who have ridden the coattails of their work, we just don't remember how bad it was. >> abby, i watched the trailer last night, and there was a very telling moment in it when you basically confess that, you know, you had this career as a "60 minute minutes" producer an had just had your first child and you said nobody prepared you for the duel -- the ambivalence, you said, of motherhood and arrear and it hit you like a truck and you felt you weren't prepared. you didn't have the tools. the first generation, women like letty really blazed a trail for women in our generation. but there is a new discussion
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happening now. sheryl sandberg is part of it, all these women leading fortune 500 companies. is that solved? >> it's the question that people grapple with. when you achieve what thankfully we've been able to achieve. then you have this baby that has this tug on you and how do you balance both? when i say i wasn't prepared, i don't think it was necessarily the women's movement job to say you know what? you're going to reach this point where you're going to be pulled in two directions and you're not exactly going to know what the decision is. what i do think is we have to have an honest conversation that that moment can come. that can happen. i didn't stop working. i just adjusted my work life so that i could be home more. but that was a difficult decision. >> but the great thing is, you had the decision. and i guess letty, because, you know, mika's written three books right now. a lot of them dealing with that tug that she is feeling. >> right. >> but she has the choice. other moms have the choice. and i think she's a bit more
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conservative in the sense that she tells young women, you know, get married. have kids. but that's the choice she makes. others may decide to work their entire life and not -- but they have that choice. >> how about all of the women who have children and two jobs? >> right. >> and don't have choices. or the single mothers who are supporting their children and maybe an elderly parent. we're very privileged. we are educated, middle-class women with not only choices but a kind of zeal for our work. we love getting up in the morning and doing what we do. but what about the women whose husbands aren't, let's say, as enlightened and aren't as participatory? those women have, you know, they've gone way beyond the issue of the tug between the child and work. they're just trying to make ends meet. they're trying to figure out why is that this world now allows women to do all kinds of things but men somehow or another haven't changed to match.
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i'll tell you, it's still tougher any way you cut it for a woman than it is for a man. just biologically a child and a mother are connected in a way, certainly the early years, that a child and a father are not. i've had four of them. come to daddy. they want to be with mama. >> there are differences. there are differences. >> that's the important thing. there are differences. but it's tougher for women. >> yeah. and i also hate when, you know, i'm never going to stand here and say women are, you know, women have it so much harder. i think part of what this new day is is that we can -- we have all of the options and all of the burdens. and actually, men do too. and if it's a partnership, then it works a lot better than if one person is shouldering the load. >> it is, was make no mistake -- >> and from what i see from the outside looking in, i saw it with my mom who worked, i've seen it with a lot of people in my family that work.
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i've seen it with mika that worked. it's a lot harder for women still than it is for men. >> there's a wonderful line in makers, which by the way, is on february 26th at 8:00, and it's the history of the women's movement that the women's movement could never have afforded to give itself. it's a great, great, great special. and it's lively. but there's a moment in it when pat schroeder says she was asked, when she ran for congress the first time, from denver, this kind of very feisty woman, ended up on a military affairs committee and very smart, she was asked by one of the old man on the hill, how can a woman be a congresswoman and a mother, and she said, because i have a brain and a uterus and i use both. >> all right! we will leave it there. >> that's the last word. >> oops, she did it again. >> "makers: women who make america" will be premiering on pbs february 26th at 8:00 p.m. make sure you watch it. thank you guys so much for being here. we appreciate it.
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coming up, much more. you're watching "morning joe." we're going to be talking about wayne lapierre and paul krugman and what they have in common when "morning joe" continues. ♪s ♪behold! ♪the power of a well booked vacation!♪ ♪booking.com ♪booking.yeah! ♪ they hatin' ♪ patrolling they tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty ♪ ♪ tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty ♪ ♪ tryin' to -- [ woman ] hi there. why do we always have to take your mom's car? [ male announcer ] the security of an iihs top safety pick, the 2013 volkswagen tiguan. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease a 2013 tiguan for $219 a month. ♪
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coming up, wayne lapierre describes a doomsday scenario when the nra's opposition to background checks. welcome to another edition
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of thunderdome! >> wait a second, t.j., i think that was thunderdome. not his op-ed. but it was about the same thing, not far off. we'll explain next on "morning joe" about one of the most bizarre op-eds written. many cereals say they're good for your heart, but did you know there's a cereal that's recommended by doctors? it's post shredded wheat. recommended by nine out of ten doctors to help reduce the risk of heart disease. post shredded wheat is made with only one ingredient: one hundred percent whole grain wheat, with no added sugar or salt. try adding fruit for more health benefits and more taste in your bowl. it's the ideal way to start your heart healthy day. try post shredded wheat. this has been medifacts for post shredded wheat.
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city. back with us on set, mike barnicle, steve rattner, and in washington, former congresswoman, jane harman. let's talk now about the president's push for new gun legislation and the republican opposition it's running into. senator lindsey graham of south carolina is accusing the president of, quote, cheerleading for new restrictions while overlooking some big gaps in the way current laws are being enforced. >> my democratic colleagues want to expand the background check law to make us all feel that we're safer. my retort to my democratic friends is that you can't really feel safe by expanding a broken law. we talk a lot about new laws, we talk about the emotional aspects of gun violence. we don't seem to be doing very much in the real world to make it -- to deter people. >> well, i mean, if the law is broken, lindsay, then fix it. it's very easy. the law is broken, so you do nothing to it?
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again, there are no good arguments against universal background checks, to keep guns out of the hands of felons. does lindsey graham want felons to have guns? does lindsey graham want people who are mentally capable of owning and possessing guns to own guns? if not, then why doesn't he support a universal background check? he says the system's broke. great. well, fix it, senator graham! let's make sure that people in south carolina know. let's make sure people in columbia know. let's make sure that people in greenville know that felons aren't going to be able to get guns illegally. i don't know why he's doing this. maybe he's listening to nra ceo wayne lapierre, who's expanding his argument now, not only against the sensible gun control legislation he supported not so long ago, the universal background check, that now li e
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lindsey says he's against, but now he's against any reasonable gun legislation. here's what he writes in his op-ed. stand and fight. after snowstorm sandy, we saw the gun prohibitionists see as their utopia. looters ran wild in south brooklyn. really? what's he suggesting there? there was no food, water, or electricity. and if you wanted to walk several miles to get supplies, you better get back before dark or you might not get home at all. meanwhile, president obama is leading the country to financial ruin, borrowing over $1 trillion, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. and then, of course, he talks about the funny stimulus and other political payouts for his cronies.
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nobody knows if or when the fiscal collapse will come, but if the country is broke, there likely won't be enough money to pay for police protection. and the american people know it. hurricanes, tornadoes, riots, terrorists, gangs, lone criminals! these are the perils we are sure to face! not just maybe. it's not paranoia to buy a gun. it's survival. it's responsible behavior. it's time we encourage law-abiding americans to do just that. mike barnicle, i don't know where to start. yeah, it's responsible to own a gun! it's responsible to protect your family. it's responsible to have a handgun in your house. it's responsible to have a shotgun. it's responsible to have a hunting rifle. but wayne lapierre is suggesting, if you are against americans being able to own assault weapons with 30-round high-capacity magazines, that somehow you're going to -- and he said it, hispanic drug gangs
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are coming to america and those terrible people in brooklyn don't go out after dark. i mean, this is so laced with racial overtones. >> oh, absolutely. >> the republican party, if they were smart, their looters today would condemn it. w because they're not smart, they're scared. they're going to lose more votes and get hammered in future elections if they allow this clown to continue to lead them around by their nose. they're shameful. they need to be leaders. >> key word is "clown." you could take this excerpt from his editorial, or whatever it is that he wrote, bring it a few floors up from here and put it on "saturday night live" this weekend and it would get great laughs if performed as well as you just performed it, joe. look it, wayne lapierre performs from a platform of fear. that's what he's peddling, he's peddling fear. and he's peddling it on behalf of gun manufacturers, not gun owners. >> gun manufacturers. >> it's about money.
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it's all about money. >> it's not about the second amendment right. >> and willie, when he goes through that laundry list, and he says that he is confident, just like glenn beck with his survival scenes, he is confident that america is going to collapse. i want to say that again. wayne lapierre, unlike ronald reagan, who believes america's greatest days were ahead of us. and if reagan were alive today, reagan would still believe that america's greatest days are ahead of us. because you know why? because america's greatest days are ahead of us. but wayne lapierre's vision, willie, is this post-apocalyptic america. again, straight out of the book of eli, where americans are going to have to buy bushmasters -- >> great movie. >> it was an amazing movie. because we're not going to have police officers! we're not going to -- wayne lapierre is arguing, we're not
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going to be able to afford police officers, so we better get those guns now, because americans know it. americans know it. we're collapsing. why does wayne lapierre not believe in america's greatness? >> he's also using the rare exception of a store being looted in brooklyn during a once in a generation, once in a century storm as an argument why we should have guns all the time. do you know what i mean? it's like, you take the one exception to make your rule. i don't know who it is in the republican party, maybe you have a better idea than i do, joe, who could step in and go to him. who has the respect of wayne lapierre and say, listen, i'm in the nra, i respect what you do, but you're hurting our party. you're hurting our brand. this is confirming all the suspicions that everybody has about us. >> everything that republicans are now trying to do to make up for their 27% showing in the election with the hispanics, wayne lapierre has undercut with this letter by talking about
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latin american drug gangs. and talking about south brook n brooklyn. and again, a racially tinged, very suggestive op-ed by wayne lapierre, who republicans are blindly following around. >> right, but this editorial, and a lot of what he's been saying, his whole appearance and the way he kind of foams at the mouth when he's on one of these sunday shows, he's making a caricature of himself. he's marginalizing himself. >> that's the problem, though. jane harman, the problem is, he's marginalizing -- i don't know what your rating was in congress. i was an a-rated guy with the nra. i believe in america's right to keep and bear arms. i believe the second amendment means what it says. i believe that americans have a right to carry. i think americans should be -- i'm upset that in new york, i can't carry a handgun if i want to carry a handgun. that's where i come from. but the extremism of wayne lapierre is so frightening, that
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i don't know -- actually, i'm talking about republicans. you know, you have democrats as well that are following wayne lapierre. >> you bet. you bet. but let me add something here. the one bipartisan moment in the state of the union message the other day was when the president called for immigration reform, and everybody stood up. and i think there's a real chance, finally, that we will have some form of comprehensive immigration reform. well, that gets undercut by these racist comments by wayne lapierre. i think, as you said, joe, there are many democrats who support gun rights. i'm not against the second amendment. and i'm not against responsible gun ownership either, but this is way extreme and wayne lapierre is the gift that keeps on giving. and i predict that you're right and that republicans will soon move this guy out of the mainstream of the party, or should. >> you know, they really should. i want to -- i guess i do,
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steve, i need to clarify, also, there are, of course, democratic senators that are going to be running for re-election in south dakota, in louisiana, in a lot of southern states, a lot of very red states in 2014 that haven't distanced themselves yet from wayne lapierre. they need to do that. there are about 40 to 45 democrats in the house of representatives that haven't distanced themselves from wayne lapierre. they need to do that as well. he is a caricature, and the question is, when are they going to get the message? >> well, we don't know. but, look, every day, every time he writes one of these things, this one, i thought, was the most over the top of anything he's written or said. i think we are going to get to that point. but as you say, there are, i think, seven democratic senators from states that obama did not carry in the last election who are up for re-election and they're having to walk a fine balance. but wayne lapierre does not work for the republican party. they do have to walk away from him, but they can't shut him down. >> and the best way to shut him down is by speaking out against
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him, walking away from him, sending a message to the nra, we are with you, like me, 95% of the time. but this extremism has to stop. i want to get to leon panetta's farewell as secretary of defense and ask jane what she thinks about it, because, boy, he had some tough words in his final press briefing on the job. with the threat of the march 1st sequester looming, leon panetta lashed out at congress for failing to halt the $85 billion in automatic cuts in the sequester. take a listen. >> oftentimes, i feel like i don't have a full partnership with my former colleagues on the hill, in trying to do what's right for this country. we need to find solutions. we can't just sit here and [ bleep ]. we can't just sit here and complain. we can't just sit here and blame others. we can't just sit here and point fingers at each other. we have got to solve real problems facing this country.
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this country is facing some real threats in the world. we can't do this alone. we have got to do this with the full partnership of the congress and both houses of the congress. >> jane, do you agree with leon panetta that the sequester is going to be terrible for the defense industry? >> well, it's already terrible -- it's not just the defense industry, it's the u.s. economy, which has contracted because of the anticipated loss of defense and aerospace jobs. but leon panetta was confirmed 100 to zip. let me repeat that. 100 to zip. and he actually has a copy of the congressional records signed by 100 senators. i told him he ought to sell it on ebay and get rich. this hasn't happened in years and it sure isn't going to happen with chuck hagel, whom we can discuss. but the whole idea that in this reckless fashion, congress is not stopping this move to sequester of the defense or the nondefense budget, just boggles
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my mind. i haven't been there in two years, but the people who are there are shaking their heads. and let me just say this. i was in munich recently for the munich security conference, my 11th time with john mccain and lindsey graham and a lot of others. the europeans who have serious structural, economic structural problems, are trying to increase their defense capability and shaking their heads at us and looking at the fact that we don't have serious problems, but we're manufacturing these economic problems, and maybe slashing the heck out of our defense budget for this crazy political circus that, sadly, is congress now. >> mike barnicle? >> let's stick with security. jane, you were in the house intelligence committee when you were in congress, and now there's a lot of talk about the proposal to have a special court for drone strikes. and yet, drone strikes are quite often, almost always, quite immediate. so how would it work -- first of all, what do you think of a
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special court, that concept? and secondly, how do you think it would work given the immediacy of the need for some drone strikes. >> well, i think it's long overdue that we put a legal framework around drone strikes. and oh, by the way, offensive cyberback cyberattacks too. and i think the framework that the congress enacted 45 years ago in the foreign intelligence surveillance act, which was amended in 2008 and has been renewed twice, fits this. here's why, mike. sure, there are emergencies. you all of a sudden discover that a very top bad guy is someplace and you want to act. but, usually, you have been watching him for a long time, and then comes your chance for action. you know, killing, especially, let's focus on an american, overseas without due process, is really not okay. extra legal killings are a bad idea, in terms of projecting our values, including the rule of law. and if we have to go through a
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process to read somebody's e-mails or listen to their conversations, if he's an american, we sure should go through a process before we kill him. and the way this can work, the way fisa as amended works, this secret court, the fisa court, which now could be the counterterrorism court, reviews in advance the contours of a program. some list of targets. this can be reviewed in advance, in imminence and all of the criteria in this d.o.j. white paper that was released recently, can be reviewed by a court. there are emergency provisions. if for some reason someone's not on the list and there's an imminent need to do something, the president has the authority to ask for that and get it and would get it. and then congress is in the picture too. and we have a separation of powers in this country, and that's how we should do it. >> coming up, we've got michael haney here with the latest issue of "gq" magazine. he's got a cover story on one of the toughest arks in hollywood. and up next, two former
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powerhouses in the business community are teaming up on a new initiative for women in their global economy. former hewlett-packard ceo, carly fiorina and former executive vice president of delta airlines, vicki escara. but first, here's bill karins. we've got this storm coming up, but what's left of this morning of some wet morning commute travels down in florida, you'll be dodging the raindrops pretty much all day. from marco island to west palm beach will eventually get some of these storms too. let's advance this out now. temperatures around the country are very mild. no bitterly cold air for the middle of february, and that's good, but that will change throughout the weekend. some showers in the northwest and snow showers up there near lake michigan. but no big storms you have to deal with. now, as we go to the weekend and things get a little more interesting. a huge dip in the jet stream.
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we are going to get a storm. i've been talking about it all week, off the east coast. for the most part, it's been trending offshore. now it's starting to inch a little bit closer in our computer model trends to hitting new england. we'll have to watch new england carefully, especially saturday afternoon and saturday evening, interior and northern new england have the best chances of getting some significant snow. again, boston, looks like for you, saturday, you may see some snow, but temperatures will be pretty warm. i'm also worried about accumulations right there along the new england coast, and those areas that just got nailed by that storm last weekend. this could be a northern new england special as we go through the saturday night into sunday and there's a sign of the cold air behind that storm system. that would be cold air from chicago to detroit and all the way down to atlanta. you're watching "morning joe," we're brewed by starbucks. ♪ they see me rollin'
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you know, i thought i would just come in. >> how's the south of france this morning? >> stop it with that! i keep getting e-mails saying -- why do you do that? >> i tell people you're in the south of france and two hours later you show up, and people actually believe -- >> i was feeding the dog, taking kids to school, cleaning up a messy kitchen pch that's what the translation is. here with us now, former hewlett-packard ceo and former chairman and ceo of carly fiorina enterprises, carly fiorina. i like the name of your company.
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and former executive for delta airlines and now ceo of opportunity international, vicki escara and of course, cnbc's brian sullivan is here as well. >> you blew through that like it wasn't important. >> he's got good news. >> what have you got? >> heinz, warren buffett is now the ketchup king. buying heinz nor $2350 plus some debt. warren buffett is now the ketchup king. they're not doing too bad. congratulations to the kerry family! i know you've been struggling. i know you've been struggling. things are okay now. >> it has been a long haul. >> that big story. >> that's a big story. a lot of mergers and stuff going -- okay. so i want to talk about what carly and vicki are here for. you started the one woman initiative. >> yes. >> and you are now joining it. tell us first of all about it to review for our viewers and then we'll talk about this new collaboration. >> i began the one-woman
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initiative in collaboration with usaid when condi rice was then secretary of state. we wanted to focus on women. so we funded women's organizations in places like azerbaijan, pakistan, egypt, the philippines, afghanistan. and hopefully, we did a lot of good. however, now we're teaming up with opportunity international, so that we can leverage that impact. the single largest unused economic resource in the world is one woman. we know that when women are invested in, they reinvest 90% of that money in their families, in their communities. if we want to solve any problem, poverty, conflict, disease, illiteracy, we have to engage women around the world in the
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solution. and so i'm very proud to be partnering now with opportunity international that has invested in women through microfinancing, over many decades. $150 invested in one woman can make a world of difference. >> oh, yes. i was about to say something snarky, but i won't. in fact, i'll go to vicki -- >> why not? women versus men? give us all $50 and we'll gamble. >> let's just say, mohammad eunice, the founder of microfinancing started out lending to men and found out that they were a poor risk. women turned out to be a much better credit risk. 98% plus of women repay their loan in full, and they re-invest, so the leverage effect of a woman is much greater, frankly. >> and that's the most important part especially going into developing nations. you hear it time and time again. women re-invest in their family, re-invest in their home, they re-invest in their community. and it's not just being less of
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a credit risk, it's also what they do with the money they keep themselves. >> and your snarky comment was right, men gamble. they take big, single positions, make one win in a day trade and think they're a genius. women tend to be smarter and better investors with their money. >> that's exactly right. if you look at half the world lives on less than $2 a day and 70% of those are women, then women are disproportionately affected by poverty. but we also know if they have income or capital, 90% of that goes back to their families, their communities, their countries. so we're serving 5 million people around the world, 20 countries, 93% of the people we serve are women. and we know with just a little bit of money, as carly said, $150 can make a huge impact on a woman starting a business. >> so break it down for us. what's the big idea? you guys have come together. what is the big goal here? >> so the big goal -- >> for people at home. what's the end game? >> so the big goal for us is, we
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are coming together to serve women around the world, and to get women, and men, in the united states excited about promoting entrepreneurship, promoting jobs around the world. so over the next three years, we will raise $50 million and that will provide 2 million women with loans to start businesses. >> but the big idea, joe, to the point, think about this. we, you know, women face many challenges in this country, still. but $150, a gift of $150 can change a woman's life. and when a woman's life is changed, a family's life is changed. a community's life is changed. if we want to solve these global problems, poverty, disease, lack of security, conflict resolution, aids, you name it, everyone agrees, the u.n. agrees, the world bank agrees, you have to get women engaged. that's a pretty good return on investment. 150 bucks to change the world in a small way.
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>> and so, talk, mika, if you will, about the importance of what they're doing, lifting up entrepreneurs. i know you worked at the white house and there are so many obstacles to women as entrepreneurs. not, i mean, if there are obstacles here in america, imagine what it's like in asia, in africa, in the middle east. >> well, and i think that's dealing, quite frankly, dire problems at this point, where women are not only treated completely differently than men, but unjustly. so you're solving some of the world's worst problems in what you're doing. but ultimately, the end game applies to what we're trying to do here in this country and that is bring more women to the table, not just because it's the right thing to do, but because of what brian said, because that balance of the mind-sets actually will make for better companies, will make for a better community, will make for a better, quite frankly, collection of leaders in washington. you just -- you don't actually want to get rid of men, but we want a balance of what each sex
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brings to the table. >> well, one woman can make a difference, a huge difference, anywhere in the world. they can make a difference in a family. they do. they can make a difference in a community, in a company, in a nation. when we have big problems, we all know the answer to big problems is to bring more resources to bear on solving the problem. and women are the single most untapped economic resource in the world. so it just makes sense. >> it does. >> so a good segue is, i leave tomorrow for uganda. and we will be visiting with women and men there, primarily female farmers that are doing a lot of great work, up in the mountains of uganda. this trust group that we have formed in uganda are all women. so the women were making money, taking it home. one of the women's husbands took the money, spent it on gambling and prostitution and other things -- >> what did i say? >> idiots. men are idiots.
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>> so he said -- >> chewing on our own hand. >> he said to the community, when the trust group came in and said, you can't take that money, he said, my wife is my property, i can take that money. and the trust group of women said, the money doesn't belong to you, it belongs to us. you got to pay it back. so it's that -- >> i hope he did. >> he did. but it's that coalition -- >> but it doesn't just take a village -- >> wow, what a story! >> -- it takes a nation, right? think about this fact, saudi arabia, one of the richest countries in the world, just gave women the right to vote beginning in 2015. women can still not drive. if you are a woman in saudi arabia, you cannot drive your own car. so the nations also have to embrace this change, do they not, vicki? >> absolutely, they do is have to embrace it. and fortunately,we we're workin in some really great countries, so it take public/private partnerships to really make this happen. >> you know, one of the amazing things to me is that still, in
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this day and age, where we believe we're enlightened in this country, where there's a lot of conversation about women's rights, it is still, frankly, acceptable for cultures to subji gait women, torture women, sell girls and women into slavery, abort babies simply because they're women. there is no justification for this. it's not religious justification, it's not cultural justification. particularly when those women could help solve these tremendous problems. we need to spend a lot of time, i think, talking about those kinds of outrages, because they're outrageous, and there is no justification for them. >> all right, carly fiorina and vicki escara, thank you all so much. >> that's important. all right, well, we're just going downhill from here. "gq's" michael haney is up next. >> is this really what we're doing? we're looking at bruce willis'
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latest movie? "a good day to die hard." are you serious? >> come on, we women love bruce too. >> would you prefer kate upton? >> trust me, joe, i will find kate upton in that issue. michael, bring it over. >> that's up next on "morning joe". >> good lord. >> i'll find her in there, because they need her breasts every day. >> stop it! mika! >> thank you so much. [ male announcer ] here's a word you should keep in mind. unbiased. some brokerage firms are. but way too many aren't. why? because selling their funds makes them more money.
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picture of -- >> yep, let's see. >> kate upton? >> she's here in a bikini next to a naked rihanna. >> but here's a picture of bruce willis on the cover. >> right. just make sure you have kate upton. >> brian, did you see kate upton? >> no comment. i put it on twitter. she was on cnbc. i'm not going to take a picture with her. >> let's show the picture. >> it's fine. it's on twitter. sul sullycnbc. >> i saw it. >> he's doing the tease to his twitter account. all right. so let's talk about "gq" this week. >> let's talk about it. >> bruce willis. i'm going to -- i'm just like carly, man. i love this guy. and he's somehow -- you know, i hear a new "die hard" is coming out, i'm like, please, give me a break, but he draws you in. >> he's a fascinating guy, he has this enormous franchise, which is "die hard," and toggles back and forth between these
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artistic projects. "moonrise kingdom" last year, don't know if you saw that. he played a sensitive like sheriff. >> a dumb, sensitive sheriff. >> so he's got this reputation. he's the actor a lot of guys in hollywood who are young, they want his career. they want the sort of stability and the paycheck of this gigantic franchise and then they want to do these artistic projects. >> and he started out moonlighting. >> good call! >> mika face lights up. >> that was an amazing show. that was like, their chemistry -- that was great. >> but you know who his actor heroes are? the three stooges. >> really? >> yeah. loves the three stooges. you're stunned. >> what about the fourth? did shemp just get -- does he just leave him aside. >> i was talking to him, he said, three stooges. i said, what is your favorite line from the three stooges. and he said, there's always that line where they say, like, hey, pick two, this is a line that's about to happen to you. >> you've got some great headlines.
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now, this is not bad. bruce willis gives us a master class in badass. >> explain that. >> does this -- does he not epitomize badass? i did the interview with him. >> how old is the guy, by the way? >> 57 years old. >> he's running around, looking fit. >> just had a baby. >> he had a baby? >> just had baby. i pointed out to him when i interviewed him in london, because he has some questions about what he does for a living now, kind of in this introspective mode, and i said, it's interesting, you and clint eastwood have the same career, you both started on these tv shows is, you made these movies, and it wasn't until clint was 62 that he got nominated for an oscar. bruce, as successful as he is, never got nominated for an oscar. >> i think "pulp fiction" was one of his seminole roles. even though it was later in his career -- >> talk about a risky role. there are some scenes in there, i talked to him about it, and he said, you know, he loved the script and he just decided to go with it. but in some ways, that made his
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career. >> what else do you have? >> what else do i have? >> i'll tell you what he has. >> what? what? >> i've got a great story -- >> brad pitt pregnant. >> have you ever been man pregnant? >> this is a hilarious story. >> brad pitt pregnant. knocked up, breaking news on "morning joe". >> a writer went to japan and he wanted to know what it's like to be pregnant. and there's a guy in japan, of course it's only in japan, who makes a suit that men can wear and he wore it to experience what it was like to be pregnant. it's women at work week, and we're sort of, you know, teaching men what it's like to be a pregnant woman. >> i don't know where to begin. >> we couldn't handle it. >> but let's -- >> i can't handle being full from a burger, for a night. >> joe, were you wondering? >> no, i was actually just looking at brad pitt, thinking how much i loved him in "fight club" and what a hero he was. >> and "12 monkeys" with bruce
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willis. >> and just how disappointed -- >> what's happening to today's men. >> it's a sensitivity issue. >> yeah, you know what, it's okay. you guys don't need to be that sensitive. >> let's talk about the return of the -- >> i like your style. >> -- the power suit. a lot of thin lapels here. >> that's an ad. the real story is here -- >> right here. are these ads? >> that's an ad. >> what page are we looking at. >> right here. i see. that's the power suit. we're going to get you over to the office, joe. >> let's berealistic, though, about "gq." it's a fantastic magazine, great articles, great writers, but the reality is, as i feel like a full-sized american male, what are these people -- look at this guy! look at you! >> you're an average-sized american man, but you look good because you have your suit tailored the right way. >> it's all about the fit. >> but laook at these guys, $3,000 jacket. i'm not joe scarborough, i can't afford that. >> no, you're not, my man.
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the lapels keep getting thinner, don't they? >> they've sort of reached a sort of stasis. >> and you had a story about the vatican and the pope in there, was that just fortuitous? >> this is a fantastic story about the pope's butler who was arrested and tried for stealing documents. and, you know, the pope's resignation this week in some ways, it's a spiritual crisis, but it's also, you know, i remind people, he is the head of state, the vatican state, and it's an institutional crisis as well. so our writer, sean flynn, spent time with the italian journalist who broke the story. there were more than 20 moles in the vatican who were leaking because they were concerned that the vatican has gotten sort of corrupt in terms of how it's managed. >> so this was just good timing that this all happened -- your magazine comes out the very week -- >> yeah, got it the week -- >> is this brad pitt again? >>, no, it's not. no. >> michael, thank you so much for being with us. >> thanks for having me here.
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>> and we're very excited, next week -- >> i'll be back, talking about my book. i think you're going to love it. >> crazy, crazy. after visiting friends, it looks fantastic. and the story is, you actually go back and investigate the mysterious death of your father. >> exactly. getting great reviews. you can see that on after visiting friends.com. but so, yeah, "gq," the pope story, thank you for bringing us back to -- and you know, anytime you guys want to come by "gq," we'll teach you al about lapels. >> that's fantastic. so we've got the pope, we've got bruce willis, and of course, we have the gratuitous picture of -- >> and we've got man pregnant. >> man pregnant and i think you've got to talk to some women about whether or not they like these men that are also caring about how they look and sensitive, because i think -- >> a little too precious? >> you want to come by for a focus group? >> i don't think i'm your audience. probably a little too old. we need to talk. i'm confused. >> you guys talk offset. coming up next here, a mega merger could send ticket airline
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prices going sky-high. brian sullivan has that story, coming up straight ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] a car has a rather small rear-view mirror, so we can occasionally glance back at where we've been. it has an enormous windshield so we can look ahead to where we are going.
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attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities. siemens. answers. when she's happy, she writes about bunnies. when she's sad, she writes about goblins. [ balloon pops, goblin growling ] she wrote a lot about goblins after getting burned in the market.
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but she found someone to talk to and gained the confidence to start investing again. ♪ and that's what you call a storybook ending. it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. welcome back to "morning joe." now to business before the bell with cnbc's brian sullivan. brian, we just showed again, for those that missed it, warren buffett in our chicago show, back in june. he brought heinz. just gave teresa heinz kerry and the family a lot of dough. >> he did. and now they have ketchup for that dough to make it even more delicious. >> how much? $28 billion, $72.50 a share. it's a group let by buffet, he's
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the main investor. it's called 3g capital. so heinz will be a part of the berkshire hathaway fold, the ketchup king. >> who did he buy frit? >> from heinz. >> a private company. >> it was public. hnz, the public shareholders, and the heinz kerry family is a major shareholder. we had a couple of deals today. by the way, unemployment numbers, 341,000, a little better than expected. still, i would like to see us again down off that three handle. still, better than expected. you also have the deal, american airlines, maybe it's valentine's day. the urge to merge today a little bit stronger than every other day. >> oh, god. >> what? us airways and american airlines, and you know, listen, guys, these airlines -- >> what does this mean for consumers? >> we're going to find out. we talked about potentially higher prices. anyone out there that flies knows that ticket prices have already gone up. what these airlines have done, you can't have a federal monopoly, right? but they've created these regional monopolies.
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quite genius. four airlines will now have 80% market share. so if you're flying out of newark, which i am today, you pretty much have to go united. if you live in miami, i think american will have an 80% share out of miami. they've created these regional monopolies, so if you live in a certain city -- if you live in charlotte, you're flying u.s. air. by the way, this combined airline will be called american, us airways goes away, joins a scrap heap of name prp. >> so u.s. air name's goes away -- >> but it's going to be run by the u.s. air executives. american buying it, but technically u.s. air drove the deal. so this is a u.s. air-led team now. >> but the ticket prices are going up and up and up. i mean, airlines have gotten really good at what's called yield management, which means they have just -- there is never an empty seat anywhere, and that's not because everyone's fly welcome that's because they have gotten so good at managing their fleets and managing not having one extra seat anywhere. >> in we were on something -- if we were on a network called cnbc, which is, by the way,
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fantastic, especially from 2:00 to 3:00 eastern time every day, i would use the term rev-par, they charge you for everything. you know, joe, you're a tall guy, you want a little extra leg room, that will be another 59 bucks, right? you want a sandwich? seven bucks. >> rev-par. >> before we go, can you talk about the most taxed cities in the united states. this is important, because with taxes going up in washington, this means a lot of small business owners are now going to be paying over 50% of everything they make to governments on all levels. >> that's a great point and there's a study, there's an article on cnbc.com today about this and smaller businesses, even bigger businesses, especially restaurants, trying to figure out how they're going to manage these costs. highest taxed cities in america, surprising, bridgeport, connecticut. >> that's unbelievable. >> bridgeport, connecticut. >> bridgeport? >> bridgeport. >> and newark -- >> they got the economy to show it. >> and the city that sticks out to me, the four of the five, you
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can kind of figure out. columbus, a bit surprising. ohio state, you would think, would sort of help mitigate some of the tax burdens. >> how is this measured? i find this fascinating. >> this is from h&r block. this is looking at people's returns and seeing how they're whacked on different taxes. those aren't city tax rates, those are how the people come out after deductions with everything. and too bad barnicle's not here, because boston did make the list, it was between 6 and 10, i can't remember which one. >> philadelphia has a wage tax and that is an issue for a lot of people. >> yeah. >> wage tax, like income -- >> extra, i think it's 3%. i'm not 100% sure. >> that's a lesson for you philadelphians, don't work! >> okay, brian, thank you so much. we want to take a moment to celebrate february as black history month. eddie robinson became the winningest college football coach in history when he broke bear bryant's record in 1985.
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>> and he bake the first coach to win 400 games over the course of his 55 seasons at the helm of the tigers. he was eventually surpassed, but when penn state was forced to vacate 111 of joe paterno's wins, he re-gained the title of the winningest college coach in division i football. >> robinson still wakes his team with a cow bell. he says if you can get them to breakfast, you can get them to class, and if you can get them to class, they'll graduate. >> we make him really feel that he's somebody and you tell him that he's living in a country where he can be anything he
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in the short time i've been here in washington, nothing has frustrated me more than false choices like the one the president has laid ow tonight. and the choice isn't just between big government or big business -- >> see, that's what you get when you eat a whole bag of pretzels before you give a speech. why was the water so far away? it would have been less awkward if he reached down the front of his pants to get it. it would have been less awkward had he been wearing one of these
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on his head during the speech. >> suddenly, the night's big story was the self-deportation of marco rubio's saliva from the inside of his mouse to the outside of his face. no, no, don't wipe, don't wipe, you're only drawing attention -- no, not the spit! don't do the spittle! this can't end well. well, as long as you don't lunge at -- no! don't! no! why?! >> okay. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso.
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your soups are so awesomely delicious my husband and i can't stop eating 'em! what's...that... on your head? can curlers! tomato basil, potato with bacon... we've got a lot of empty cans. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. we've got a lot of empty cans. at tyco integrated security, we consider ourselves business optihow?rs. by building custom security solutions that integrate video, access control, fire and intrusion protection. all backed up with world-class monitoring centers, thousands of qualified technicians, and a personal passion to help protect your business. when your business is optimized like that, there's no stopping you. we are tyco integrated security. and we are sharper.
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how did i know? well, i didn't really. see, i figured low testosterone would decrease my sex drive... but when i started losing energy and became moody... that's when i had an honest conversation with my doctor. we discussed all the symptoms... then he gave me some blood tests. showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number -- not just me. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% (testosterone gel). the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy, increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer
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or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are or may become pregnant or are breastfeeding, should not use androgel. serious side effects include worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet, or body, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing during sleep, and blood clots in the legs. tell your doctor about your medical conditions and medications, especially insulin, corticosteroids, or medicines to decrease blood clotting. so...what do men do when a number's too low? turn it up! [ male announcer ] in a clinical study, over 80% of treated men had their t levels restored to normal. talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%.

tv
Morning Joe
MSNBC February 14, 2013 3:00am-6:00am PST

News/Business. Interviews with newsmakers and politicians; host Joe Scarborough. New.

TOPIC FREQUENCY Us 46, Wayne Lapierre 46, America 26, Joe 19, New York 12, Lindsey Graham 9, Ferrell 9, Krugman 9, Paul Krugman 9, Washington 9, Leon Panetta 8, South Brooklyn 7, Steve Rattner 7, U.s. 7, Nra 6, Chuck Hagel 6, Bruce Willis 6, Steve 6, Willie 6, Mike Barnicle 6
Network MSNBC
Duration 02:59:59
Scanned in San Francisco, CA, USA
Source Comcast Cable
Tuner Virtual Ch. 787 (MSNBC HD)
Video Codec mpeg2video
Audio Cocec ac3
Pixel width 1920
Pixel height 1080


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on 2/14/2013
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